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कृण्वन्तो विश्वमार्यम्

Shankaraachaarya's Monism (Adwaitvaad) - Anti Vedic

What Adi Sankracharya said in the name of Adwaitvaad (monism) is anti-Vedic. He followed his dada-guru (guru's guru) Gaudpaad. In Shankar's bhashyas on Prasthantrayi (Gita, Vedant Darshan & Upanishads) we don't find any reference of the mantras from the four Vedas (Rig etc). He used (misused?) his great power of logic in interpreting various texts according to his own personal philosophical notions. Otherwise there exist many verses and aphorisms in Vedic literature establishing Traitvaad of God, Soul and Matter in clear terms. This was the reason that Swami Vivekananda (himself a great ‘Vedantin’) has admitted this fact that Shankaracharya has twisted the real meanings of many aphorisms which in fact represent the bheda (difference between Bhahman & individual Soul).

To believe that "the authors of Sad Darshna (Six shastras of Vedic philosophy) interpret Veda mantras based on monism, dualism, pantheism, pluralism, agnosticism and even atheism, and hence some variations could happen" — is also not at all reasonable. These six Rishis - Kanad, Kapil etc. were Rishis - seers, not ordinary scholars. They have just tried to present the philosophical principles of the Vedas in most logical system. They are not contradicting each-other; rather they are complimentary to each-other. Swami Dayananda has explained this thing - synthesis of six Darshans in his Satyarth-prakash.

Neo-Vedant as per Shankar's philosophy is not clear on Maya. If maya is a substance (dravya) it negates Adwait. And if maya is an attribute (guna) it must be that of Brahman only because as per Adwaitvaad only Brahman exists – nothing else. Now if maya is Brahman's attribute then it must be eternal like Brahman. Because there is samavay- sambandha (permanent relation) between Dravya & Guna. Guna doesn't and can't exist without any dravya – substratum. It is very strange to believe that the maya (dravya or guna - whatever it may be believed) makes All-knowing Brahman ignorant of His own swarup (nature)! Can All-knowing Brahman be ever believed to forget His own swarup?

Yes, if Maya is used to signify eternal inert - unconscious matter (prakriti-material cause of universe) then it becomes easy to understand Vedic philosophy of God (Brahman), Soul & Matter; otherwise not.

= Bhavesh Merja

Excellent !

Excellent !

please edit the article and

please edit the article and change the name to shankaraachaarya's monism

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ॐ..मैंने gtalk

ॐ..मैंने gtalk पर srujan जी से बात की । ये देखिए मैं वार्त्तालाप कॉपी कर यहाँ पेस्ट कर रहा हूँ। आशा है srujan जी को कोई दिक्कत नहीं होगी। -
asrujankumar-hi

asrujankumar@adc.edu.in is online.
basant-pranaam
asrujankumar-Pranaam
so u dont like hi
basant-hi is english word[language of britishers]
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basant-what things bro?
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asrujankumar-ya ive registered.i think it vl b activated by tmrw...
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asrujankumar-ya
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basant-u see/
all said it was very interesting
asrujankumar-ya really.but all data lost
any how its the will of the god
basant-no problem we can start again
it was the will of you[brahman] haha
asrujankumar-ya
basant-oh really!
asrujankumar-actually my last reply was exactly about that one
difference between saguna brahman n nirguna brahman
basant-then i posted 3 comments , but no one saw and website prob
asrujankumar-kk.
and wat about caste system in arya samaj
basant-ok we wil talk on this matter when you post on site
arya samaj do NOT beleive in such rubbish theory
asrujankumar-acha
basant-they beleive in varna system which is based on karma only
asrujankumar-i like swami dayananda saraswati exactly about one thing
basant-what ?
asrujankumar-i.e., he is against caste system
basant-he is not only against caste system but against many bad things also
asrujankumar-ya
and thyen i started knowing about arya samaj
basant-i request you to please read satyarth prakash
it changed my life
asrujankumar-ya started bro
Ya But accept only that which is true
basant-not only me but thousands of people too
he put evidences
he directly quates from the vedas
asrujankumar-so if we want to become member of arya samaj...do they do any intiation
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basant-im not an official member yet, im a fan of dayanand
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mathematics
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basant-aryasamaj.org mein milna tata

Sent at 8:36 PM on Friday
date 14-05-2010

Why did u paste this from

Why did u paste this from orkut chat...?
are u any secret agent...
or are u suspiscious of someone or something...!!??
GOD BLESS U

i just want to inform all

i just want to inform all the members that srujan advaitha ji will coming soon. and the nice discussion will happen. if you hurt then please tell me i will delete that post brother!

Very interesting &

Very interesting & entertaining. 'OM-OM' can & should be used inplace of TA TA; By By & Hello. and this Sweet sound will enhance your self prestige as well, while uniting both sides with the universaly available God who resides inside the hearts as well.
Bahut Dhanyawad Arya Basant !
Anand

BRAHMAM SATYAM JAGATH

BRAHMAM SATYAM JAGATH MITHYA
JEEVO BRAHMAIVA NA APARAH

swaagatam srujan ji ! sabse

swaagatam srujan ji ! sabse pahle yah bataiye ki MITHYA shabd ka aap kya arth samajhte hai? please explain the meaning of the word MITHYA first

if you are god[brahman] then

if you are god[brahman] then can you please tell me how much marks will i earn in class 12th board exam?

how much marks will MUKUND

how much marks will MUKUND earn ? how much marks will DEEPALI GAUTAM earn? who will be the toper in my class?

Dont be childish

Dont be childish aarya.basant...
im talking about that Brahman without attributes,qualities,forms etc.,which is pure knowing itself i.e., NIRGUNA BRAHMAN which is the ultimate reality...
and ur talking about SAGUNA BRAHMAN which is god personified and has all the attributes like omnipotent,omniscient etc.,and Saguna Brahman is just the reflection of the Nirguna Brahman in the environment of Mithya Illusion.when this ignorance is disappeared then one realises his true self as Brahman(Nirguna) which is the ultimate reality which is beyond Saguna Brahman.

And dont ask me about your and your friends' marks to me.Ask your God Ishwar i.e., Saguna Brahman.He is sure going to answer you if you have pure devotion in your heart.

what? are you talking about

what? are you talking about two gods? ewww.. but god is only one! do you believe thAT GOD dont have attributes,qualities etc.? it means you dont believe in VEDAS because veda talks about god's attributes etc. your theory is very very confusing. i leave for now. talk with anand ji .

Namaste Sh Srujan Adwitha

Namaste Sh Srujan Adwitha ji
You have taken the trouble to come back & join this family, for discussing Adwaitha. It shows the spirit with which you live.
now joining the discussion, you are having with Arya Basant, I would appreciate if you clarify the following.

What is Mithya illusion ? Why should Nirgun Brahma which you call as the ultimate reality , which is also pure knowing itself should be attacked by Ignorance. If he gets attacked by ignorance, then you can’t term Him as Pure.

Pl don’t bring in the word indescribable while proving your points (except when its realy not describable), because here can lie the lie of the theory.

Pl. describe step by step how Nirguna Brahma gets itself into an illusion (atleast as much as you know & can explain?)
Is there any time frame for this to happen or is it a continuous process i.e., the Nirguna Brahma is in the habit of continuouslyfalling in to the trap of ignorance ? Pl. try to reply step by step, so that we can analyse the truth. We shouldn’t bother about what the outcome of discussion would be, we should only worry about the truthfulness of the facts to the extent we know & understand it. I think , you will agree with this.

Pranaam Anandaji First of

Pranaam Anandaji

First of all everything is Brahman.Pay attention to this sir.Sarvam Kalvidam brahma.it is your own ego that is blocking you to realise the truth as it is.The ego itself is Illusion sir the maya.
And u ask me "how does this illusion come"
Well let me tell you sir.Whenever you are asleep there comes a point when you dream.and as long as you are dreaming u think the whole world in that dream as true. u take everything that is contained in that dream world as true.isn't it sir.and the moment u come out from that dream u exclaim "Oh its just dream.I thought that was true.Thank God." isn't it sir.we have such experiences isn't sir.
Now i ask you how did you feel the dream world as real as long as u are in dream sir?how is that possible when you know who you are from childhood.how does that illusion come sir.How?
Its your own ignorance that has created that illusion world.it is your own ignorance(ego-i am body-i am my mind etc.,).which have created that illusion and created a wrong notion that you are something else in that dream.and the moment you are out of that dream, u have realised your identity as so and so and the dream as false.
In a similar way as long as you hold on to ur personal identity as so and so and if you are unable to go beyond it there is no realisation of truth.and the moment u realise the truth about one's true identity one realises the world is just an illusion just as u have realised about a dream.

Pranaam to everyone Sir my

Pranaam to everyone

Sir my sincere suggestion is that one may read great so many books on advaitha,yoga,sankhya etc., but he/she may still be ignorant.the books may say anything.The bible says so and so.the bhagavadgita says so and so.the satyartha prakash says so and so.but at last its we who have to realise the truth absolute.
The "EXPERIENCING OF TRUTH" is the one which is important sir.I repeat "EXPERIENCING" is essential sir.U can quote many sayings from the scriptures,like vedas,upanishads, etc.,but if u have not experienced them then u have not done justification to that one.
Observe your surroundings sirs.Observe.Just Observe.Be calm and just Observe.Dont try to comment upon whatever you are observing.dont try to interpret anything.but just SEE.Now try to perceive the one that is in between the observer and the observed.The state in between the Observer and the Observed i.e., the state of "Observing".and in this state of "Observing" there is neither the Observer nor the Observed.Its the "Being" itself in which there is no more 'Duality' but only the state of 'Non-Duality' for the ego is dissapeared completely and one has gone beyond mind and realised the truth as it is. it is a transcendental state.

" Now try to perceive the

" Now try to perceive the one that is in between the observer and the observed.The state in between the Observer and the Observed i.e., the state of "Observing".and in this state of "Observing" there is neither the Observer nor the Observed."

So you want to become this 'state of observing' ??? whether the observer has no existance now ?

"Its the "Being" itself in which there is no more 'Duality' but only the state of 'Non-Duality' for the ego is dissapeared completely and one has gone beyond mind and realised the truth as it is. it is a transcendental state."

"ego is disappeared" MEANS Ignorance has disappeared . We agree to this. All right ?

where from the frog of mind jumped in front of the observer, if it don't have any existance? And where this frog as well as the observer disappeared and only 'the state of being' left after Ego vanished ?

»

Yeah this is what i expected

Yeah this is what i expected from you.
How can you know that state of "being" before you put into practice then??. you are bound to get doubts for sure you will get doubts.when a person looks at a rope and mistakens it to be snake,even if we give hundreds of explanations that it is not a snake just a rope,he is not going to satisfy.because he didn't see it with his own eyes.so the moment he goes to it and finds for himself that it is no more a snake but just a rope then he'll be satisfied.till then one is sure going to have as many doubts as possible.

How can you know the frog of mind jumping in front of observer if u have not experienced it???
And in the last sentence u ask me"And where this frog as well as the observer disappeared and only 'the state of being' left after Ego vanished ?"
how can u know without "getting into that state".

**So for all the above

**So for all the above three points you have the same answer ? – “How can you know”
I asked you,- So you want to become this 'state of observing' ??? whether the observer has no existance now ?
What you are replying is explanation of your own doubts. I havn’t put any doubt so far ? Say simply Yes or No if you are sure. And yes or no for the existence of an observer. Why you start putting your own doubts on others? Every one has heard about such things. Next I asked you –
where from the frog of mind jumped in front of the observer, if it don't have any existance? And where this frog as well as the observer disappeared and only 'the state of being' left after Ego vanished ?

So clearly I expected from you an explanation of from where the thing like Mnd has come, when your theory denies existence of any thing else than God or Brahma ? Simply tell from where some thing comes out of nothing. We will experience it later on if we feel it. Similarly tell where can an observer and the mind vanish. Is it not unscientific to say the things appear & vanish at their own will ? Simply saying – you don’t know is not atall an educated way of the reply. In the examples stated above nothing vanishes – the rope remains as rope, the only change you get is that initially u took it as a snake and now u know it to be a rope or vice versa.

Sir who said that Advaita

Sir who said that Advaita denies existence of everything other than Brahman.Who told u so?Are u reading any books on Advaita and understanding it in your own way as you like it.I said that Brahman one without second appears as many and in different forms due to ignorance.I didn't deny the existence of anything.What exists is the Brahman itself in different forms.

And next "where from the frog of mind jumped in front of the observer, if it don't have any existance"
A)now where does this jumping come from?did i use that word.did isay that frog of mind jumped in front of the observer?why do u create such absurd statements sir when u don't understand what im talking about.And did i deny the existence of mind?i never did that.and u say u haven't put any doubts so far?are these not your doubts?Who asked me about the 'frog jumping'?is it not you who have raised this doubt?why do you try to escape?

"Similarly tell where can an observer and the mind vanish. Is it not unscientific to say the things appear & vanish at their own will ? Simply saying – you don’t know is not a tall an educated way of the reply."
A)why did u consider observer and mind as different?did i say so?i used the words observer and the observed.observer is the mind itself and the observed is the object.and u say how things appear and vanish?why can't? u believe in anitya theory.u have clearly mentioned in one of ur replys that jagat is anithya.,then why cant this be true.if ur anitya theory is scientific and true then u have to accept for what i have told about observer and the observed as true and scientific.if not then you are against your theory of anitya.

Namaste Dear Srujan

Namaste Dear Srujan ji
Ishwar is Vyapak . Ishwar is everywhere, Everywhere Ishwara exists. We 100% believe the same. So you shouldn't worry that we don't believe in this. We believe in " ISHAVASYAMIDAM SARVAM...... "

We must realize the problem being discussed here is
i) Whether individual soul has a separate identity or not ?
ii) Whether what we see is only Maya , a non existant thing or it has any existence?

The problem of Ego you are discussing now is a Local problem, it is a problem of an individual and not a universal problem Do you aggree to this ? If you dont agree to this then you should have answered my previously asked questions, but you havn't answered any of them .

But even if you still feel the whole Brahma is having a problem of Ego then this example you have now quoted in itself stands invalid, because in that case the dream you have mentioned & the realisation thereafter that this was just a dream and not a reality, as well as the truth you now know will be taken as yet another dream ( a bigger dream) and hence your example is in itself a false statement or yet another illusion and hence may not require any consideration at all ?

Lets now move to yet another question.
Now how do you intend to come out of your above described Illusion ? Has each individual to work to achieve this or any one can achieve this for the whole of Brahma ? or it will be an awakening of Brahma in parts. This I am saying because, suppose you are able to realize the Truth and realize yourself as Brahma, what is going to happen to others? Lets now further enlarge this querry ? What about the infinite creatures other than humans and what about the Plants & rivers , mountains, earth, Sun, stars? Are they a part of God or a part of illusion ? How are they going to recover or otherwise will they vanish by themselves as they are illusions only ???

Now about the questions raised by you –

" Now i ask you how did you feel the dream world as real as long as u are in dream sir?how is that possible when you know who you are from childhood.how does that illusion come sir.How?"

You have answered the question yourself when you said -

" Its your own ignorance that has created that illusion world.it is your own ignorance(ego-i am body-i am my mind etc.,).which have created that illusion and created a wrong notion that you are something else in that dream.and the moment you are out of that dream, u have realised your identity as so and so and the dream as false.
In a similar way as long as you hold on to ur personal identity as so and so and if you are unable to go beyond it there is no realisation of truth."

This is 100% correct, but what what you add thereafter

"and the moment u realise the truth about one's true identity one realises the world is just an illusion just as u have realised about a dream."

is only partly TRUE. Here lies the difference and the difference is not small. It is the quesion of identity of things other than you ? When you see dreams your mind makes figures out of what is stored in its Chit. When a Yogi cleans his mind , he don’t get any such dreams. This dream is the random search the mind is making out of the things stored in it. You can visualize this in your computer. Which shows you only what is stored in it and nothing else. So your calling the stored matter as MITHYA is a big IGNORANCE.

Similarily not recognizing the existence of PRAKRITY or NATURE is a big IGNORANCE. As in our common practice, for want of our own IGNORANCE we can’t all others as lier , similarily for want of our own ignorance we can’t call Nature as Mithya.

Now what is left is between I the individual self & God, we can take it after we decide , whether the Prakrity has any existance or not.
Please see , unless you also try to reply point by point it will not be possible to come to any conclusion. So either try to answer what I ask you & I answer what you ask me or we keep believing as we may like.

Now it’s for you to first prove that what you call as Maya has no existence with reference to my explasnation of how we dream.

"Ishwar is Vyapak . Ishwar

"Ishwar is Vyapak . Ishwar is everywhere, Everywhere Ishwara exists. We 100% believe the same. So you shouldn't worry that we don't believe in this. We believe in " ISHAVASYAMIDAM SARVAM...... "
Thank you so much this Advaita.Ishwar exists everywhere.it means that u have agreed that Ishwar exists in me , you and in everything and every where.
Finally u have accepted ADVAITA thank you so much.

and u ask me the following
"We must realize the problem being discussed here is
i) Whether individual soul has a separate identity or not ?
ii) Whether what we see is only Maya , a non existant thing or it has any existence?"
iA)yes the individual soul has separate identity till it knows its true nature as BRAHMAN
iiA)Its both.existence and non-existence...from one standpoint its non-existence because when one questions about this world as "what is this world?where does it come from?" and if one can question in this way and goes deeply into it then one is sure going to experience this world as "False.it doesn't exist" its just a spontaneous realisation after a long sincere practice.but it still has existence for you are being in this world and have even experienced this world as False.So its both existence as well as non-existence.From one stand point the world is true but from another standpoint its False.
And u say
"The problem of Ego you are discussing now is a Local problem, it is a problem of an individual and not a universal problem Do you aggree to this ? "
Ans)yes the problem of ego is an individual one till one realise himself as BRAHMAN.individual souls are just like reflection of one moon in different containers containing water.it just a reflection not true.the ego thinks that its different from the moon.in a similar way individual thinks himself as different from Brahman till the disapearance of ego.

Next u have asked me
"and the moment u realise the truth about one's true identity one realises the world is just an illusion just as u have realised about a dream."

is only partly TRUE. Here lies the difference and the difference is not small. It is the quesion of identity of things other than you ? When you see dreams your mind makes figures out of what is stored in its Chit. When a Yogi cleans his mind , he don’t get any such dreams. This dream is the random search the mind is making out of the things stored in it. You can visualize this in your computer. Which shows you only what is stored in it and nothing else. So your calling the stored matter as MITHYA is a big IGNORANCE.

Ans)im not calling the stored matter as mithya.if u would like call it as so then i have no problem.and i have given you the example of dream so that u could realise how this world seems as true because of ignorance. And you are interpreting the example of dream and raising doubts from that one which is very ignorance.For example if i tell about my friend by comparing him with a lion that"Wow he is walking like a Lion" then u cant ask me that"how can he be a lion when he doesn't have tail?.how can he be lion when he doesnt have those four legs?" and so on which is absurd.we give example only to tell what the reality is actually.
And
"Similarily not recognizing the existence of PRAKRITY or NATURE is a big IGNORANCE. As in our common practice, for want of our own IGNORANCE we can’t all others as lier , similarily for want of our own ignorance we can’t call Nature as Mithya."
Ans)for this i have explaineed in the above...!!

** 1. So u are happy that

**
1. So u are happy that we believe in ur Adwaita Ishwar.

2. “yes the individual soul has separate identity till it knows its true nature as BRAHMAN”

So u agree the individual soul is there, but u want to call it as A disillusioned Brahma ? May we call u by this name or you have become a True Brahma ? Pl don’t mind this individual question.

3. “Its both.existence and non-existence “ Also “From one stand point the world is true but from another standpoint its False.”

Is it the reason u had so much of hesitation in describing it as indescribable ? I think u had been a science student. Is it a proper way of describing a thing ? Don’t tell again – u experience it then u will know. U tell only the scientific bases if u have, otherwise we will tell u how to describe it, which satisfies ur explanation as well as which is purely scientific.

4. u say “sure going to experience this world as "False.it doesn't exist" its just a spontaneous realisation after a long sincere practice.”

Very nice a spontaneous realization that World is false. But brother what is false in it and has it some truth also or not? U want to enjoy every thing & then start saying every thing is false. Why such an irresponsible method has been choosen by ur Adwaitha ? Pl. see the world is made from basic particles called Mool Prakriti i.e., Sat, Tam & Raja. Now from these ever existing particles the variety of things appeared which is known as Jagat. The jagat has a varying nature and hence is called Anitya (Not Mithya) The soul which has this world before it as well as the Permeshwar and His Gyan, can play with this world while loving the God and ultimately get the Bliss of God. U then don’t require to call any thing as Mithya. This also confirms the scientific principle that nothing can come out of nothing .
So why follow a system which uses fancy but hollow words like JAGAT MITHYA. ILLUSION AHAM BRAHMASMI just to attract the people ?

5. Next u say “yes the problem of ego is an individual one till one realise himself as BRAHMAN” and u are giving the example of a moon and its reflection in different water bodies

Are not all ur examples just horrible ? comparing a Brahma with a reflection of moon ? is ur Brahma so downgraded ? that it has now became like a reflection ? it’s just impossible to digest such a theory ? What is the necessity to describe individual soul in such a cruel ,utterly useless & meaningless way?

6. “.Ans)im not calling the stored matter as mithya.if u would like call it as so then i have no problem.and i have given you the example of dream so that u could realise how this world seems as true because of ignorance."

What we want u to know is that nothing comes out of Nothing U have to have some bases for every thing. By saying every thing as an illusion or indescribable or giving horrible examples and trying to avoid the reality, to tell the theories which are unscientific is not at all justified. If u cant justify a theory , u simply tell other person, u don’t know? How come this is scientific way of telling a truth ? If we talk about the experience, which u mention time & again then can u tell how many of Adwaitha people available in this world today , who have become Real Brahma from disillusioned Brahma ????

I am sorry if by the way u may feel some words not very friendly.
Don't mind we will continue it & you have still to answer some of the unanswered questions>

2. “yes the individual

2. “yes the individual soul has separate identity till it knows its true nature as BRAHMAN”

So u agree the individual soul is there, but u want to call it as A disillusioned Brahma ? May we call u by this name or you have become a True Brahma ? Pl don’t mind this individual question.
A)U dont even understand what im talking about.i have told u clearly what the individual soul is.its just the ego which thinks that it is different from the Brahman.and look at the word u have used that is., disillusioned brahma.do u know the meaning of that word?did i say that i want to call individual soul as disillusiopneed brahma?Why are u getting degraded in this way?
go through the meaning of that word and pose the question.

3. “Its both.existence and non-existence “ Also “From one stand point the world is true but from another standpoint its False.”

Is it the reason u had so much of hesitation in describing it as indescribable ? I think u had been a science student. Is it a proper way of describing a thing ? Don’t tell again – u experience it then u will know. U tell only the scientific bases if u have, otherwise we will tell u how to describe it, which satisfies ur explanation as well as which is purely scientific.
A)If u cannot grasp the truth of Advaita, then sir i cannot degrade the advaita vedanta by bringing to your level.and you are worried about the scientific explanation.doesn't a science consists of both theory and practicals.i have given you enough of theory and not only that but i have asked to put into practice then u are going to know what advaita is.but you dont understad what im saying about and u counter attack again and again.is this the way sir.a science student listens to the theory and conducts the experiment practically and he knows the concept of a particular subject.Dont u know such a simple thing sir.Why cant u put into practice and understand what it is.

And in the fourth point
U say that"But brother what is false in it and has it some truth also or not? U want to enjoy every thing & then start saying every thing is false. Why such an irresponsible method has been choosen by ur Adwaitha ?"
A)what did i reply to you about the Mithya.have u understood it?.if yes you couldn't have made this statement for your statement is against my explanation..and im sure u didnt even undestand even an iota of it.and u criticize about it.I told very clearly what Mithya is in my previous replys.its upto u sir.
and u say the world is made of mool prakriti i.e., sat tam raja etc., and the so called scientific man has to explain me scientifically how these particles came.from where?who is the creator of it?and u also say that from these particles things like jagat appeared?let me see how scientific you are sir.have u seen jagat appearing from those particles?how much time does it take.?and who or what is responsible for this?and why it appears?when it has appeared?and u talk about Parameshwar.who is parameshwar?from where does he come?who is the creator of the parameshwar?have seen parameshwar?was he black,brown,red?what language does he speak?does parameshwar create this world?if so how?And have u seen all these with your naked eyes?Let me see how scientific you are then?
and nobody here using mithya to attract people.i stand by truth thats all.

in the 5th point u are worried about the example of moon.y r u worried about its cruelty etc.,is that so cruel and horrible?i dont think so.the cruelty is in u and so its appearing in the same manner sir.just see the example and try to understand the concept thats all.why do u worry that its horrible? and u didnt even understand that example.did i say that brahman is the reflection?why do u create such false statements sir.i said very clearly that the individual souls are the reflections(not brahman) of Brahman in water.if u do not understand u ask me once again or be calm sir but dont create such false statements.
6)"What we want u to know is that nothing comes out of Nothing U have to have some bases for every thing."
A)did i say so?did i say that nothing comes out of nothing.i didnt deny it anytime.if i did then show me.
"If we talk about the experience, which u mention time & again then can u tell how many of Adwaitha people available in this world today , who have become Real Brahma from disillusioned Brahma ????"
A)the question itself is absurd. for u dont even know the meaning of disillusioned brahma.and u use that word and create false statements which is very unfair.

finally
Don't mind we will continue it & you have still to answer some of the unanswered questions>
A)what are those questions i haven't answered?i have been answering each and every question that u pose to me.what are those unanswered questions?let me know.
And moreover there are many questions that has to be answered by u that too in a scientific way.

I think I shall club both

I think I shall club both the windows at one point, so pl. don't mind. The various querries/remarks raised by sh Adwaitha ji is replied leaving a few which don't have any acadmic value. The * represents Sh adwaitha & # me

*1. Sir who said that Advaita denies existence of everything other than Brahman.Who told u so?Are u reading any books on Advaita and understanding it in your own way as you like it.I said that Brahman one without second appears as many and in different forms due to ignorance.I didn't deny the existence of anything.What exists is the Brahman itself in different forms.

#1. How should any intelligent person react to this – ‘BRAHMA appears as Many and in different forms’ ‘due to ignorance’ What shall be the result expected from such a Brahma’s appearance ?

*2..And did i deny the existence of mind?i never did that?.

#2 Can u define ‘mind’ except as an illusion ?

3. A)why did u consider observer and mind as different?did i say so?i used the words observer and the observed.observer is the mind itself and the observed is the object

#3. your observer is ‘mind’ so naturally the theory being put up here is what has been told by mind and not by Brahma and hence it can’t be any thing else than absurd/ Mythya.

*4. and u say how things appear and vanish?why can't? u believe in anitya theory.u have clearly mentioned in one of ur replys that jagat is anithya.,then why cant this be true.if ur anitya theory is scientific and true then u have to accept for what i have told about observer and the observed as true and scientific.if not then you are against your theory of anitya.

#4. Anitya means which changes , not the one which looses its existence , wheras the term Mythya means which has no existence, though we may talk about it Anitya is the one which exisist though its form changes. The fine particles of which this Brahamand is basically made of & for which the scientists are always in search to know its proper identity can ever be called as false? It’s a show of biggest IGNORANCE to call it as the one Generated by BRAHMA who is a pure, Vishudh, formless….etc etc to create any thing out of nothing and furthering IGNORANCE. {See *! Above}and then call it as Mithya (false/ jhooth/untruthful) .

*5. Thank you so much this Advaita.Ishwar exists everywhere

#5. Does Ishwar belong to Adwaith only?

*6. iA)yes the individual soul has separate identity till it knows its true nature as BRAHMAN

#6 What sort of identity ? Pl. see the example served – (i)‘ the individual soul is. its just the ego which thinks that it is different from the Brahman.’ & (ii) ‘sir.i said very clearly that the individual souls are the reflections(not brahman) of Brahman in water.”
So they call all of us as either an Ego or the reflections of Brahma only ? One may judge what sort of people they are ?

*7. iiA)Its both.existence and non-existence...from one standpoint its non-existence because when one questions about this world as "what is this world?where does it come from?" and if one can question in this way and goes deeply into it then one is sure going to experience this world as "False.it doesn't exist" its just a spontaneous realisation after a long sincere practice.

#7. Their awakening is spontaneous where they find this world as false – the world which is the product of their own Brahma, the one which is pure… – “Brahman one without second appears as many and in different forms due to ignorance”. And they insist all of us who are only the egos/reflections only, to understand it.

*8. but it still has existence for you are being in this world and have even experienced this world as False.So its both existence as well as non-existence.From one stand point the world is true but from another standpoint its False.

#8. Who except Vedantis have experienced the world as false ? If u are experiencing it as false why don’t u leave this body & world, who stops u ? Infact they want to enjoy its fruits, while simultaneously calling it as Mithya ( the term misused to create illusions?)

*9. Ans)yes the problem of ego is an individual one till one realise himself as BRAHMAN.individual souls are just like reflection of one moon in different containers containing water.it just a reflection not true

#9. Why Brahma should be dragged in to generating a PRAPNCH which has created an infinite egos around the world, which are converting this world in to a MYTH or MYTHYA ? A big question mark ???? The word soul has no meaning for u, its just an ego or mind, so stop calling it as soul.

*10. Ans)im not calling the stored matter as mithya.if u would like call it as so then i have no problem.and i have given you the example of dream so that u could realise how this world seems as true because of ignorance

#10. Dream is merely like reading a story book , where the story & book both have an existance and hence u have agreed that it’s not Mithya. So why similarily u stop calling jagat as Mithya ???

*11. you are interpreting the example of dream and raising doubts from that one which is very ignorance.For example if i tell about my friend by comparing him with a lion that"Wow he is walking like a Lion" then u cant ask me that"how can he be a lion when he doesn't have tail?.how can he be lion when he doesnt have those four legs?" and so on which is absurd.we give example only to tell what the reality is actually.

#11. the fault lies in ur explanation & not in understanding .

*12. the individual soul is.its just the ego which thinks that it is different from the Brahman.and look at the word u have used that is., disillusioned brahma.do u know the meaning of that word?did i say that i want to call individual soul as disillusiopneed brahma?Why are u getting degraded in this way?
go through the meaning of that word and pose the question.

#12. Who’s fault is it , if’ Egos’ are given a capacity and power or have been made to behave like this,that they are different from Brahma? Take the example of a computer. Each computer is given an identity & it bears the name of the owner of software, but if it fails to indicate this name and start behaving in an erratic way, then who is at fault, if not the Creator of this computer ?
& who is being degraded by the way ? You are talking about us as Souls=mind= Egos, then are u worrying also ?

*13 A)If u cannot grasp the truth of Advaita, then sir i cannot degrade the advaita vedanta by bringing to your level.and you are worried about the scientific explanation.doesn't a science consists of both theory and practicals.i have given you enough of theory and not only that but i have asked to put into practice then u are going to know what advaita is.but you dont understad what im saying about and u counter attack again and again.is this the way sir.a science student listens to the theory and conducts the experiment practically and he knows the concept of a particular subject.Dont u know such a simple thing sir.Why cant u put into practice and understand what it is.

#13. How a mind/ ego can practice it, the practice has to be done by a conscious thing and not by any non conscious thing ? An ego is only an illusion, so do u expect illusion itself to remove itsef ? and for whom it should remove itself ? Brahma is not at all going to be effected by this ? is it so or not ?

*14. A)what did i reply to you about the Mithya.have u understood it?.if yes you couldn't have made this statement for your statement is against my explanation..and im sure u didnt even undestand even an iota of it.and u criticize about it.I told very clearly what Mithya is in my previous replys.its upto u sir.

#14. The mysteries propagated by ego can be understood by Egos only, I don’t think a sane person would like to believe such a false interpretation of Mithya.

*15. and u say the world is made of mool prakriti i.e., sat tam raja etc., and the so called scientific man has to explain me scientifically how these particles came.from where?who is the creator of it?and u also say that from these particles things like jagat appeared?

#15. May I put one similar counter question to u ? Who has created Brahma? And u say from the same Brahma every thing generated.
Dear friend , there has to be an ultimate base of every thing, beyond which thereis left no point to go. And without an ultimate Base nothing can grow. So every one in this world talks of a BASE. For u this base is Brahma, for Scientists this base is Nature’s basic particles, for other seimetic religions this base is their God, for Jains & Bodh’s this base is the Nature & Soul and similarily the base of this Universe as told in VEDAS & as propagated by Mahrishi Dayanand ji on the bases of Veda is that there are not one, nor two basic things , but there are Three Basic things , which are iternal, which don’t have a beginning or end and these are (!) Prakrity (Nature); (2) Atma & the (3) is Parmatma.

*16. let me see how scientific you are sir.have u seen jagat appearing from those particles?how much time does it take.?and who or what is responsible for this?and why it appears?when it has appeared?and u talk about Parameshwar.who is parameshwar?from where does he come?who is the creator of the parameshwar?have seen parameshwar?was he black,brown,red?what language does he speak?does parameshwar create this world?if so how?And have u seen all these with your naked eyes?Let me see how scientific you are then?

#16. The question shows that now u have lost all ur patience, which u had been showing as a Brahma till now ? May I ask a one very simple question from u ? Has any one seen his mothers womb where he grew ? How he grew there ? from what particles he grew, how much time it took him to get different body parts, who was responsible for all this ? Should we like to continue this way ? u want to know about Parmeshwar ? Who has created Him, have u seen him, Is he black brown and so on…..?
If ignorance can create a world, cant Knowledge create a world ??? Are computors a creation of Ignorance or of knowledge ?
The detail how a baby develops in the womb are available by studying about the mothers body parts & their functioning but who is father & mother ? is as told by ur mother & father only no body else can tell & u have no other way to find it out, similarily the details of how Sristi was created is available by studying the Sristi , which is an open book and for the unknown details u have to go to its Creators Manual, the Vedas.
Have I talked any thing unscientific, then pl. let me know.

*17. so.the cruelty is in u and so its appearing in the same manner sir..did i say that brahman is the reflection?why do u create such false statements sir.i said very clearly that the individual souls are the reflections(not brahman) of Brahman in water.if u do not understand u ask me once again or be calm sir but dont create such false statements.

# 17. Whose fault is this ? Ego’s ?

*18. did i say that nothing comes out of nothing.i didnt deny it anytime.if i did then show me.

#18 No u don’t deny, u only very cleverly call everything as Mithya, a term which u use to coverup all ur ignorance and put the blame of ignorance on God & His manifestation, the mind etc.

*19. "If we talk about the experience, which u mention time & again then can u tell how many of Adwaitha people available in this world today , who have become Real Brahma from disillusioned Brahma ????"
A)the question itself is absurd. for u dont even know the meaning of disillusioned brahma.and u use that word and create false statements which is very unfair.

#19. what’s absurd in this ? if u know the persons who have lost their Ego, we would very well like to talk to them.

*20. A)what are those questions i haven't answered?.
And moreover there are many questions that has to be answered by u that too in a scientific way.

#20. I will repeat them later on. For ur qs I am here.

*21. Its your own ignorance that has created that illusion world.it is your own ignorance(ego-i am body-i am my mind etc.,).which have created that illusion

#21. Whose ignorance ? the Ego’s or mind’s or is there any thing else than this ?

*22. In a similar way as long as you hold on to ur personal identity as so and so and if you are unable to go beyond it there is no realisation of truth.and the moment u realise the truth about one's true identity one realises the world is just an illusion just as u have realised about a dream.

#22. As I told u above that each computer is given an identity , so that it works efficiently & is also protected, so should the Ego/mind not have an identity ? Why computer or mind should go beyond it ? & what the mind is required to know about the truth ? Should it know it’s a mind or should it know it is Brahma or should it know I am an illusion??? Mind it as per ur theory, there is no other conscious thing (except Brahma) who can know this , this fault is to ur credit, who have in the name of Adwaita, forgotton the individual CONSCIOUS SOUL, who is the owner of this body, who is the king of this body, who has the capacity to control each & every part of this body i/c mind, intellect, Pranas etc. etc.
If U have an Atm-Gyan , then u wont talk of any illusions , nor shall be led by any illusions of mind. You as a soul (Atma & not Mind or Ego) can act with ur power , which u can get in plenty from Parmatama , who resides along with u & also every where in the Universe & who is a friend & guide who enlighten’s each soul (not mind /ego) by his Jyan(knowledge or Ved Jyan), Who shows each soul the path.

*23. the state of "Observing".and in this state of "Observing" there is neither the Observer nor the Observed.Its the "Being" itself in which there is no more 'Duality' but only the state of 'Non-Duality' for the ego is dissapeared completely and one has gone beyond mind and realised the truth as it is. it is a transcendental state.

#23. As per ur theory its only the mind who is an observer, but when the observer & the observed is not there, there must be a thing who shines with the light after getting rid of mind & other objects. Who can this be an Atma or Parmatma. Now Parmatma is never never disillusioned, so it is only the Atma, who realizes the separation from the Prakrity’s components like mind & establishes its relation effectively with Parmatma & enjoins His BLISS. Non duality never means that there is none other than God, but it do means that the Atma realizes Parmatama & becomes one with Him.

1. How should any

1. How should any intelligent person react to this – ‘BRAHMA appears as Many and in different forms’ ‘due to ignorance’ What shall be the result expected from such a Brahma’s appearance ?
A)y ru worried about intelligent person which is nothing but ego.y dont u get rid of this ego and see the truth as it is.and result?what result do u need when u have known the truth that everything is brahman.

2 Can u define ‘mind’ except as an illusion ?
A)mind is a bundle of thoughts.when all the thoughts are still its the state of brahman.

your observer is ‘mind’ so naturally the theory being put up here is what has been told by mind and not by Brahma and hence it can’t be any thing else than absurd/ Mythya.
A)dont be childish sir. even though i am brahman-pure consciousness which cannot speak etc., i need an instrument to reveal it.and so the mind.i am just making use of the mind to point u the direction towards the truth

#4. Anitya means which changes , not the one which looses its existence , wheras the term Mythya means which has no existence, though we may talk about it Anitya is the one which exisist though its form changes. The fine particles of which this Brahamand is basically made of & for which the scientists are always in search to know its proper identity can ever be called as false? It’s a show of biggest IGNORANCE to call it as the one Generated by BRAHMA who is a pure, Vishudh, formless….etc etc to create any thing out of nothing and furthering IGNORANCE. {See *! Above}and then call it as Mithya (false/ jhooth/untruthful) .
A)u r doing the same mistake once again by giving ur own false definitions for mithya.i have clearly explained not just once but many times about mithya in my previous replys.please go through that and pose a correct question

Does Ishwar belong to Adwaith only?
A) i didnt get u did i say that Ishwar belongs only advaitha?or anything of that kind. i need a clarity to this question please. please pose this question once again in a detailed way.

So they call all of us as either an Ego or the reflections of Brahma only ? One may judge what sort of people they are ?
A)is this the question? or are u criticising someone.y do u worry about "what sort of people they are?".they are also brahman just as u are.but they are aware of it and u are not.

#7. Their awakening is spontaneous where they find this world as false – the world which is the product of their own Brahma, the one which is pure… – “Brahman one without second appears as many and in different forms due to ignorance”. And they insist all of us who are only the egos/reflections only, to understand it.
A) once again u admit a wrong definition for world saying that it as false.please go through my explanation in previous replys.and i am not insisting anyone but only guiding them to get rid of their egos so that there would be no more ignorance( iam this body etc.,) and be in their true state i.e., brahman state which is everlasting bliss everlasting bliss.

#8. Who except Vedantis have experienced the world as false ? If u are experiencing it as false why don’t u leave this body & world, who stops u ? Infact they want to enjoy its fruits, while simultaneously calling it as Mithya ( the term misused to create illusions?)
A)ya you will definitely question in this way for u have attached to ur ego so much.and where is the question of leaving the body and world when everyhthing is me brahman.who has to leave the body except but ego.your question arises only to those who are still attached to their egos

#9. Why Brahma should be dragged in to generating a PRAPNCH which has created an infinite egos around the world, which are converting this world in to a MYTH or MYTHYA ? A big question mark ???? The word soul has no meaning for u, its just an ego or mind, so stop calling it as soul.
A)well its all the play of god.the mithya arise and the seeker of truth realise that this world is mithya and knows thae truth Aham brahmasmi]

#10. Dream is merely like reading a story book , where the story & book both have an existance and hence u have agreed that it’s not Mithya. So why similarily u stop calling jagat as Mithya ???

A)the same question u repeat in a thousand and one varieties.y do i call this as mithya nad what is mithya exactly please go through the above replys.

#11. the fault lies in ur explanation & not in understanding .
A) i have told that u are unable to understand about the mithya which i have explained in some of my replys but not about the dream example.u hav been bringing the old questions and linking them with the new ones and answering in ur own way.please through my replys of 19th may and answer me point wise sir. dont escape.

#12. Who’s fault is it , if’ Egos’ are given a capacity and power or have been made to behave like this,that they are different from Brahma? Take the example of a computer. Each computer is given an identity & it bears the name of the owner of software, but if it fails to indicate this name and start behaving in an erratic way, then who is at fault, if not the Creator of this computer ?
& who is being degraded by the way ? You are talking about us as Souls=mind= Egos, then are u worrying also ?
A) u ask me whos fault is this.well i have told u its all the play of god.the maya arises the seeker of truth realise the truth and knows that everyhthing is brahman.

#13. How a mind/ ego can practice it, the practice has to be done by a conscious thing and not by any non conscious thing ? An ego is only an illusion, so do u expect illusion itself to remove itsef ? and for whom it should remove itself ? Brahma is not at all going to be effected by this ? is it so or not ?
A)yes. as a ladder can be transcended by making use of ladder make use of ur mind to transcend ur mind.and then ul come to know what is that "whom".and brahman is not at all going to get effected by this.

#14. The mysteries propagated by ego can be understood by Egos only, I don’t think a sane person would like to believe such a false interpretation of Mithya.
A)well nothing has been propagated by ego.i am just making use of mind to pint u the direction towards the truth.and by the way u have a very good sense of humour Anandji i like that.

#15. May I put one similar counter question to u ? Who has created Brahma? And u say from the same Brahma every thing generated.
Dear friend , there has to be an ultimate base of every thing, beyond which thereis left no point to go. And without an ultimate Base nothing can grow. So every one in this world talks of a BASE. For u this base is Brahma, for Scientists this base is Nature’s basic particles, for other seimetic religions this base is their God, for Jains & Bodh’s this base is the Nature & Soul and similarily the base of this Universe as told in VEDAS & as propagated by Mahrishi Dayanand ji on the bases of Veda is that there are not one, nor two basic things , but there are Three Basic things , which are iternal, which don’t have a beginning or end and these are (!) Prakrity (Nature); (2) Atma & the (3) is Parmatma.
A) well nothing creates brahman.it has no birth and no no death no beginning and no end.its the existence itself absolute.and i dont worry about any base but only the truth.

#16. The question shows that now u have lost all ur patience, which u had been showing as a Brahma till now ? May I ask a one very simple question from u ? Has any one seen his mothers womb where he grew ? How he grew there ? from what particles he grew, how much time it took him to get different body parts, who was responsible for all this ? Should we like to continue this way ? u want to know about Parmeshwar ? Who has created Him, have u seen him, Is he black brown and so on…..?

A)if this is ur response sir then i do have the same explanation just as the above one when u have asked me about mithya some days ago "is this the scientific way of explaining?"

If ignorance can create a world, cant Knowledge create a world ??? Are computors a creation of Ignorance or of knowledge ?
The detail how a baby develops in the womb are available by studying about the mothers body parts & their functioning but who is father & mother ? is as told by ur mother & father only no body else can tell & u have no other way to find it out, similarily the details of how Sristi was created is available by studying the Sristi , which is an open book and for the unknown details u have to go to its Creators Manual, the Vedas.
Have I talked any thing unscientific, then pl. let me know.
A)ignorance never creates the world but only arises and makes this world appear as different from brahman.just as u open the book of vedas and read the details in the similar way i request u to open the book of heart and know that ur brahman.

# 17. Whose fault is this ? Ego’s ?
A)definitely....

#18 No u don’t deny, u only very cleverly call everything as Mithya, a term which u use to coverup all ur ignorance and put the blame of ignorance on God & His manifestation, the mind etc.
A)so u have accepted that i didnt deny. and its just appearing as i have denied it and blaming the god which is not true at all from ur point of view.

#19. what’s absurd in this ? if u know the persons who have lost their Ego, we would very well like to talk to them.
A)Oh then u want to know the persons who have got rid of their ego. which is again an egoistic question.y dont u get rid of that ego and experience it by urself

#20. I will repeat them later on. For ur qs I am here.
A) ya please go on...

#21. Whose ignorance ? the Ego’s or mind’s or is there any thing else than this ?
A) ego is the part of mind.i think the answer is very clear

#22. As I told u above that each computer is given an identity , so that it works efficiently & is also protected, so should the Ego/mind not have an identity ? Why computer or mind should go beyond it ? & what the mind is required to know about the truth ? Should it know it’s a mind or should it know it is Brahma or should it know I am an illusion??? Mind it as per ur theory, there is no other conscious thing (except Brahma) who can know this , this fault is to ur credit, who have in the name of Adwaita, forgotton the individual CONSCIOUS SOUL, who is the owner of this body, who is the king of this body, who has the capacity to control each & every part of this body i/c mind, intellect, Pranas etc. etc.
If U have an Atm-Gyan , then u wont talk of any illusions , nor shall be led by any illusions of mind. You as a soul (Atma & not Mind or Ego) can act with ur power , which u can get in plenty from Parmatama , who resides along with u & also every where in the Universe & who is a friend & guide who enlighten’s each soul (not mind /ego) by his Jyan(knowledge or Ved Jyan), Who shows each soul the path.
A)one should just remain as a witness to his body, mind etc., and know that he is brahman.and ur explanation about the soul king of the body is a gud one from ur point of view i dont deny it but its not the ultimate truth

#23. As per ur theory its only the mind who is an observer, but when the observer & the observed is not there, there must be a thing who shines with the light after getting rid of mind & other objects. Who can this be an Atma or Parmatma. Now Parmatma is never never disillusioned, so it is only the Atma, who realizes the separation from the Prakrity’s components like mind & establishes its relation effectively with Parmatma & enjoins His BLISS. Non duality never means that there is none other than God, but it do means that the Atma realizes Parmatama & becomes one with Him.
A)ya this explanation is true fro ur concept of soul,prakriti,god.but not the ultimate one.The ultimate truth that which shines is atman i.e., brahman itself.

Srujan Advaita ने Fri,

Srujan Advaita ने Fri, 2010-05-28 18:19 पर लिखा. & the replies to that at ##

1. How should any intelligent person react to this – ‘BRAHMA appears as Many and in different forms’ ‘due to ignorance’ What shall be the result expected from such a Brahma’s appearance ?
A)y ru worried about intelligent person which is nothing but ego.y dont u get rid of this ego and see the truth as it is.and result?what result do u need when u have known the truth that everything is brahman.

##[Oh ! What an easy path ? Sit and do nothing, because , if u have to do some thing u require a mind, and if u will do so, u create a chattering in mind, which is ignorance. So final solution is sit & do nothing.]

2 Can u define ‘mind’ except as an illusion ?
A)mind is a bundle of thoughts.when all the thoughts are still its the state of brahman.

##[mind is a bundle of thoughts & the thoughts are illusions ? so mind = illusion ? This is what I said. You can’t even define mind. Definition means what mind is made of, what is its construction & how it works ? Even if u call it as thoughts only it will be equivalent to electromagnetic/radiowaves. Now waves also travel through a medium. So pl. explain the medium through which these thoughts travel Mind is made of finer particles which are actuated by thoughts created in mind. So mind can be trained to give the outputs as u may like ( as we can get any video in TV as we may like) , so why u allow it to create illusions for u? Just try meditation through Pranayam & get rid of all sort of illusions.]

your observer is ‘mind’ so naturally the theory being put up here is what has been told by mind and not by Brahma and hence it can’t be any thing else than absurd/ Mythya.
A)dont be childish sir. even though i am brahman-pure consciousness which cannot speak etc., i need an instrument to reveal it.and so the mind.i am just making use of the mind to point u the direction towards the truth

##[ u are using mind which is bundle of thoughts- a bundle of illusions – to point to us the direction towards the truth ?, what should we call it a truth or illusions…..?]

#4. Anitya means which changes , not the one which looses its existence , wheras the term Mythya means which has no existence, though we may talk about it Anitya is the one which exisist though its form changes. The fine particles of which this Brahamand is basically made of & for which the scientists are always in search to know its proper identity can ever be called as false? It’s a show of biggest IGNORANCE to call it as the one Generated by BRAHMA who is a pure, Vishudh, formless….etc etc to create any thing out of nothing and furthering IGNORANCE. {See *! Above}and then call it as Mithya (false/ jhooth/untruthful) .
A)u r doing the same mistake once again by giving ur own false definitions for mithya.i have clearly explained not just once but many times about mithya in my previous replys.please go through that and pose a correct question

##[Does ur definition of Mithya not different from the literal meaning of Mithya, or otherwise u are using it the way u like ?]

Does Ishwar belong to Adwaith only?
A) i didnt get u did i say that Ishwar belongs only advaitha?or anything of that kind. i need a clarity to this question please. please pose this question once again in a detailed way.

##[U yourself said ’Adwaitha Ishwar’ – “Thank you so much this Advaita.Ishwar exists everywhere.” So what should we understand from this ?]

So they call all of us as either an Ego or the reflections of Brahma only ? One may judge what sort of people they are ?
A)is this the question? or are u criticising someone.y do u worry about "what sort of people they are?".they are also brahman just as u are.but they are aware of it and u are not.

##[Well be happy with ur thinking –which is an output or a productt of ur mind –the one which is a generator of chattering & illusions ?]

#7. Their awakening is spontaneous where they find this world as false – the world which is the product of their own Brahma, the one which is pure… – “Brahman one without second appears as many and in different forms due to ignorance”. And they insist all of us who are only the egos/reflections only, to understand it.
A) once again u admit a wrong definition for world saying that it as false.please go through my explanation in previous replys.and i am not insisting anyone but only guiding them to get rid of their egos so that there would be no more ignorance( iam this body etc.,) and be in their true state i.e., brahman state which is everlasting bliss everlasting bliss.

## [My question is being bypassed. The question raised was –“And they insist all of us who are only the egos/reflections only, to understand it.” Again may I ask u is it for mind to understand that it should stop thinking the wrong way or is it for some body else who should understand it. Ur reply will surely be the same – when Ego vanishes we realize ourselves as Brahma. Then pl tell, who has realized this- Mind or Brahma ?]

#8. Who except Vedantis have experienced the world as false ? If u are experiencing it as false why don’t u leave this body & world, who stops u ? Infact they want to enjoy its fruits, while simultaneously calling it as Mithya ( the term misused to create illusions?)
A)ya you will definitely question in this way for u have attached to ur ego so much.and where is the question of leaving the body and world when everyhthing is me brahman.who has to leave the body except but ego.your question arises only to those who are still attached to their egos

##[So one thing is sure & which u have to have admit & that is the existence of an EGO along with the BRAHMA. It is such a thing which continues to overshadow Brahma from time immemorial and will continue to do so for ever. Is it the same as the SHAITAN of Christianity ? So ur Adwaita theory stands nullified by this Ego/ Shaitan/ ignorance. Mind it this Shaitan appears to be as powerful as Brahma, because the whole universe is full of illusions & illusions only.]

#9. Why Brahma should be dragged in to generating a PRAPNCH which has created an infinite egos around the world, which are converting this world in to a MYTH or MYTHYA ? A big question mark ???? The word soul has no meaning for u, its just an ego or mind, so stop calling it as soul.
A)well its all the play of god.the mithya arise and the seeker of truth realise that this world is mithya and knows thae truth Aham brahmasmi]

##[The seeker again is mind ????]

#10. Dream is merely like reading a story book , where the story & book both have an existance and hence u have agreed that it’s not Mithya. So why similarily u stop calling jagat as Mithya ???
A)the same question u repeat in a thousand and one varieties.y do i call this as mithya nad what is mithya exactly please go through the above replys.

##[This is because u used the term – “im not calling the stored matter as mithya.” Pl chech it for urself (Reply dtd.17/5)].

#11. the fault lies in ur explanation & not in understanding .
A) i have told that u are unable to understand about the mithya which i have explained in some of my replys but not about the dream example.u hav been bringing the old questions and linking them with the new ones and answering in ur own way.please through my replys of 19th may and answer me point wise sir. dont escape.

##[Pl. see once again what way u had written to explain ur point –“*11. you are interpreting the example of dream and raising doubts from that one which is very ignorance.For example if i tell about my friend by comparing him with a lion that"Wow he is walking like a Lion" then u cant ask me that"how can he be a lion when he doesn't have tail?.how can he be lion when he doesnt have those four legs?" and so on which is absurd.we give example only to tell what the reality is actually”.
So I still can’t follow what u mean by - “and answer me point wise sir. dont escape.”]

#12. Who’s fault is it , if’ Egos’ are given a capacity and power or have been made to behave like this,that they are different from Brahma? Take the example of a computer. Each computer is given an identity & it bears the name of the owner of software, but if it fails to indicate this name and start behaving in an erratic way, then who is at fault, if not the Creator of this computer ?
& who is being degraded by the way ? You are talking about us as Souls=mind= Egos, then are u worrying also ?
A) u ask me whos fault is this.well i have told u its all the play of god.the maya arises the seeker of truth realise the truth and knows that everyhthing is brahman.

##[u repeat again & again “the seeker of truth realise the truth and knows that everyhthing is Brahman”, but u never answer who is ur seeker ? The mind ? the ego ? the chattering or the chatterer]

#13. How a mind/ ego can practice it, the practice has to be done by a conscious thing and not by any non conscious thing ? An ego is only an illusion, so do u expect illusion itself to remove itsef ? and for whom it should remove itself ? Brahma is not at all going to be effected by this ? is it so or not ?
A)yes. as a ladder can be transcended by making use of ladder make use of ur mind to transcend ur mind.and then ul come to know what is that "whom".and brahman is not at all going to get effected by this.

##[ Have u ever seen any ladder using another ladder by itself. It always require some person to couple two ladders for ascending a still higher height.they can’t do it by themselves.]

#14. The mysteries propagated by ego can be understood by Egos only, I don’t think a sane person would like to believe such a false interpretation of Mithya.
A)well nothing has been propagated by ego.i am just making use of mind to pint u the direction towards the truth.and by the way u have a very good sense of humour Anandji i like that.

##[No comment.]

#15. May I put one similar counter question to u ? Who has created Brahma? And u say from the same Brahma every thing generated.
Dear friend , there has to be an ultimate base of every thing, beyond which thereis left no point to go. And without an ultimate Base nothing can grow. So every one in this world talks of a BASE. For u this base is Brahma, for Scientists this base is Nature’s basic particles, for other seimetic religions this base is their God, for Jains & Bodh’s this base is the Nature & Soul and similarily the base of this Universe as told in VEDAS & as propagated by Mahrishi Dayanand ji on the bases of Veda is that there are not one, nor two basic things , but there are Three Basic things , which are iternal, which don’t have a beginning or end and these are (!) Prakrity (Nature); (2) Atma & the (3) is Parmatma.
A) well nothing creates brahman.it has no birth and no no death no beginning and no end.its the existence itself absolute.and i dont worry about any base but only the truth.

##[By the way what ur ‘I’ means here ? An ego or Brahma ??? As Brahma has no beginning & no end, similarily Prakrity & Souls have no beginning & no end.] Why u get confused if some other terms are used to explain some thing instead of ur routine reply ?]

#16. The question shows that now u have lost all ur patience, which u had been showing as a Brahma till now ? May I ask a one very simple question from u ? Has any one seen his mothers womb where he grew ? How he grew there ? from what particles he grew, how much time it took him to get different body parts, who was responsible for all this ? Should we like to continue this way ? u want to know about Parmeshwar ? Who has created Him, have u seen him, Is he black brown and so on…..?
A)if this is ur response sir then i do have the same explanation just as the above one when u have asked me about mithya some days ago "is this the scientific way of explaining?"

##[ Pl reread ur question, before questioning my response – “let me see how scientific you are sir.have u seen jagat appearing from those particles?how much time does it take.?and who or what is responsible for this?and why it appears?when it has appeared?and u talk about Parameshwar.who is parameshwar?from where does he come?who is the creator of the parameshwar?have seen parameshwar?was he black,brown,red?what language does he speak?does parameshwar create this world?if so how?And have u seen all these with your naked eyes?Let me see how scientific you are then?”]

#If ignorance can create a world, cant Knowledge create a world ??? Are computors a creation of Ignorance or of knowledge ?
The detail how a baby develops in the womb are available by studying about the mothers body parts & their functioning but who is father & mother ? is as told by ur mother & father only no body else can tell & u have no other way to find it out, similarily the details of how Sristi was created is available by studying the Sristi , which is an open book and for the unknown details u have to go to its Creators Manual, the Vedas.
Have I talked any thing unscientific, then pl. let me know.
A)ignorance never creates the world but only arises and makes this world appear as different from brahman.just as u open the book of vedas and read the details in the similar way i request u to open the book of heart and know that ur brahman.

##[ from where the ignorance has arrived , when one & the only one Brahma has an existence as per ur theory ??? and the Brahma is pure, Absolute…………………?
Ur suggestion of opening a book of heart is really some thing which makes one laugh . There are infinite creatures, whom u want to open their hearts ? Also count cats, rats, mosquitoes……..and so on.]

# 17. Whose fault is this ? Ego’s ?
A)definitely....

##[u shouldn’t have removed ur previously asked questions , which explains how vague replies have been made by u. I once again reproduce the same “*17. so.the cruelty is in u and so its appearing in the same manner sir..did i say that brahman is the reflection?why do u create such false statements sir.i said very clearly that the individual souls are the reflections(not brahman) of Brahman in water.if u do not understand u ask me once again or be calm sir but dont create such false statements.”]
#18 No u don’t deny, u only very cleverly call everything as Mithya, a term which u use to coverup all ur ignorance and put the blame of ignorance on God & His manifestation, the mind etc.
A)so u have accepted that i didnt deny. and its just appearing as i have denied it and blaming the god which is not true at all from ur point of view.

##[ Again pl look at ur question –“ did i say that nothing comes out of nothing.i didnt deny it anytime.if i did then show me.”
Now read ur description of Brahma, because u believe every thing to come out of Brahma, who is defined by u as Brahman without attributes,qualities,forms etc.,which is pure knowing itself i.e., NIRGUNA BRAHMAN which is the ultimate reality... and then u change this Nirgun Brahma in to a
SAGUNA BRAHMAN which is god personified and has all the attributes like omnipotent,omniscient etc.,and Saguna Brahman is just the reflection of the Nirguna Brahman in the environment of Mithya Illusion.when this ignorance is disappeared then one realises his true self as Brahman(Nirguna) which is the ultimate reality which is beyond Saguna Brahman. “
I really wonder how are u able to accept & digest all this ?]

#19. what’s absurd in this ? if u know the persons who have lost their Ego, we would very well like to talk to them.
A)Oh then u want to know the persons who have got rid of their ego. which is again an egoistic question.y dont u get rid of that ego and experience it by urself

##[ u are wonderful guy ? If we ask u any thing, we are Egoist & if u talk and say Aham Brahmasmi, u are Brahma ?]

#20. I will repeat them later on. For ur qs I am here.
A) ya please go on.
……

#21. Whose ignorance ? the Ego’s or mind’s or is there any thing else than this ?
A) ego is the part of mind.i think the answer is very clear

##[Pl pay attention to ur own question first - “ Its your own ignorance that has created that illusion world.it is your own ignorance(ego-i am body-i am my mind etc.,).which have created that illusion”
Now pl. answer who has been trapped in to this illusion that I am body, I am mind ? If ego of mind says ‘ Iam mind’ its not ignorance of mind , it’s a truth, but it can be called as illusion, if some one else calls itself as mind. Mind calling itself as mind is never never an illusion FIND out the one who is saying that I am body, I am mind The illusion is to that one who is saying so and not to mind or body..]

#22. As I told u above that each computer is given an identity , so that it works efficiently & is also protected, so should the Ego/mind not have an identity ? Why computer or mind should go beyond it ? & what the mind is required to know about the truth ? Should it know it’s a mind or should it know it is Brahma or should it know I am an illusion??? Mind it as per ur theory, there is no other conscious thing (except Brahma) who can know this , this fault is to ur credit, who have in the name of Adwaita, forgotton the individual CONSCIOUS SOUL, who is the owner of this body, who is the king of this body, who has the capacity to control each & every part of this body i/c mind, intellect, Pranas etc. etc.
If U have an Atm-Gyan , then u wont talk of any illusions , nor shall be led by any illusions of mind. You as a soul (Atma & not Mind or Ego) can act with ur power , which u can get in plenty from Parmatama , who resides along with u & also every where in the Universe & who is a friend & guide who enlighten’s each soul (not mind /ego) by his Jyan(knowledge or Ved Jyan), Who shows each soul the path.
A)one should just remain as a witness to his body, mind etc., and know that he is brahman.and ur explanation about the soul king of the body is a gud one from ur point of view i dont deny it but its not the ultimate truth

##[ u are not only a witness to this body, mind but a user of it, it’s ur choice to divert ur self towards use of Nature only or actuate it to realize Brahma and be with Him. What the Sagun Brahma cant achieve due to ignorance is achievable by u if u follow Ved Gyan.]

#23. As per ur theory its only the mind who is an observer, but when the observer & the observed is not there, there must be a thing who shines with the light after getting rid of mind & other objects. Who can this be an Atma or Parmatma. Now Parmatma is never never disillusioned, so it is only the Atma, who realizes the separation from the Prakrity’s components like mind & establishes its relation effectively with Parmatma & enjoins His BLISS. Non duality never means that there is none other than God, but it do means that the Atma realizes Parmatama & becomes one with Him.
A)ya this explanation is true fro ur concept of soul,prakriti,god.but not the ultimate one.The ultimate truth that which shines is atman i.e., brahman itself.

##[ What problem u or Brahma has , if Prakrity & souls also have an existence and are eternal ? Do u want Brahma to remain for ever in illusion ?? Why put the blame of ignorance on Brahma & then change His name from Nirgun Brahma to Sagun Brahma ? Jagat can’t be called a play of Brahma where every thing is called an illusion. Read the VEDAS as per Mahrishi Dayanad ji’s Ved Bhashya to know the truth. Don’t depend on hallucinations of ur mind. As I already told u earlier try Pranayama, learn to contol ur body by perfecting Asanas , breath by Pranayam & mind by Pranas & then meditaste on the real Ved Gyan. Give it a Try, even if u don’t believe in this, then lets know if u still believe in becoming Brahma by just knowing that jagat is Mythya.]

Any how the discussion though may not decide the Truth, it has the capacity to enhance the knowledge of all. So in this regard I thank u vey much for the nice discussions $ the sincere pains u have taken. We can continue further if we so wish.

If everything is Brahman –

If everything is Brahman – please clarify what you mean by ‘everything’?

“Sarvam Kalvidam brahma”: This means that everything is brahmastha = within all-pervading Omnipresent Brahaman. Other alternate possible meaning may be: Brahman is completely Brahman i.e. there exist no ignorance, nescience etc. within Him, He is pure consciousness, He is pure Brahman – no adulteration. For example: Idam sarvam Ghritam – means this is pure butter, no mix of any other thing, 100% butter. Upanishads are semi poetical. One should find its logical true meaning. If everything is Brahaman, do you really believe that stone is Brahaman, water is Brahaman, petrol is Brahaman, and pencil is Brahaman?

Please understand ego (ahankaar) is created by Brahaman out of Prakriti (material cause of the universe) and given to us (souls) alongwith body, mind, sense organs etc. so that we can use it for our purpose of acquiring final release = moksha. It is not a bad thing. The ego is a real thing; it is not an Illusion or maya.

Dream state has awakened state as its basis, as its background. Dreaming is a real phenomenon. At the time of dreaming a dream really exists. Hence when you use this dream state in your logic to prove your point you can’t negate its (dream’s) existence. You have to admit the real existence of dream. That means you believe in a thing (dream) which is other than Brahaman. If you don’t believe in the existence of dream then your stand taken on its example falls.

When Brahaman (say God-Parameshwar-Paramatma whatever you like: These are all synonyms of Almighty power, only Neo-Vedantins have created confusions by creating differences among these terms) is real how jagat (creation) can be unreal?

Realization of Absolute Truth means acknowledgement of the reality; it doesn’t mean that any how we have to prove our favorite philosophy. If in reality three basic entities (God-Soul-Prakriti) exist then we should be frank enough to acknowledge them.

= Bhavesh Merja

Sir u ask me "If everything

Sir u ask me
"If everything is Brahman – please clarify what you mean by ‘everything’?

“Sarvam Kalvidam brahma”: This means that everything is brahmastha = within all-pervading Omnipresent Brahaman. Other alternate possible meaning may be: Brahman is completely Brahman i.e. there exist no ignorance, nescience etc. within Him, He is pure consciousness, He is pure Brahman – no adulteration. For example: Idam sarvam Ghritam – means this is pure butter, no mix of any other thing, 100% butter. Upanishads are semi poetical. One should find its logical true meaning. If everything is Brahaman, do you really believe that stone is Brahaman, water is Brahaman, petrol is Brahaman, and pencil is Brahaman?"
Ans)yes sir.everything is Brahman.Stone is brahman.petrol is Brahman.water is brahman.that which exists is only brahman and everything is brahman.Brahman is Pure Consciousness and that pure consciousness exists in water,petrol,etc., and etc., and in everything.
And next
"Please understand ego (ahankaar) is created by Brahaman out of Prakriti (material cause of the universe) and given to us (souls) alongwith body, mind, sense organs etc. so that we can use it for our purpose of acquiring final release = moksha. It is not a bad thing. The ego is a real thing; it is not an Illusion or maya.
Ans)Well i didnt say that ego is bad thing if you would like to admit that one then i have no objection.and u say "so that we can use it for our purpose of acquiring final release" this is what Advaita is all about.What is this "we" sir u have mentioned in that sentence?is it not an ego..!! and for whom the moksha and for whom the bondage its only for the individual soul-ego.
And
"Dream state has awakened state as its basis, as its background. Dreaming is a real phenomenon. At the time of dreaming a dream really exists. Hence when you use this dream state in your logic to prove your point you can’t negate its (dream’s) existence. You have to admit the real existence of dream. That means you believe in a thing (dream) which is other than Brahaman. If you don’t believe in the existence of dream then your stand taken on its example falls."
Ans)For this i have given answer to Anandji ji please refer to it.
And
"When Brahaman (say God-Parameshwar-Paramatma whatever you like: These are all synonyms of Almighty power, only Neo-Vedantins have created confusions by creating differences among these terms) is real how jagat (creation) can be unreal?"
Ans)even for this quetion please refer to answer i have given to anandji about how this jagat can be unreal etc.,please go through it.

Now you made these two

Now you made these two statements:

(a) "everything is Brahman.Stone is brahman.petrol is Brahman.water is brahman.that which exists is only brahman and everything is brahman."

(b)"Brahman is Pure Consciousness and that pure consciousness exists in water,petrol,etc., and etc., and in everything."

(a) and (b) give different senses: (a) says that everything is Brahman, but (b) says that Brahman exists in everything.

(a) is incorrect and (b) is correct - in our opinion.

You have made self-contradiction. If X pervades Y, then both X & Y cannot be identical. X is pervader, Y is Pervaded. We believe that God (Brahman) pervades everything (= All individual souls as well as Prakriti = jagat = creation=srishti).

In the statement "so that we can use it for our purpose of acquiring final release" made in the earlier message, yes, it was intended to show that Moksha=Emancipation=Mukti is our aim, and "we" meant we - the individual souls. As stated in the earlier message Ego is a God-given unconscious (inert) instrument of the individual soul. It is made by God from sattva-rajas-tamas (mool prakriti = material cause of the universe). The soul attains moksha, not ego.

I think Vedic concepts are easy to understand. Is it mandatory that philosophy must be hard to understand? I don't think so.

= Bhavesh Merja

If u agree with (b) then it

If u agree with (b) then it also means that u are agreeing with (a).
and u are saying X is the pevader and Y is the pervaded.Well i didn't say that brahman is the pervader.its neither the pervader nor the pervaded.it is the Existence itself Absolute.And it exists in everyhthing and so all these things like water,etc., contain Brahman that is pure consciousness which even u agree with this point and so these things are Brahman itself in different forms.but the essence is the same in all these things like water etc., i.e., pure consciousness and so (a) and (b) are true.

And in the next one "The soul attains moksha, not ego."
Well i didn't say that ego attains the moksha. this is where the problem arises between the dualists and the non-dualists.I say that when the ego is lost then that sate is itself the state of Brahman and there is no question of Moksha for when the ego is lost the ignorance is removed what remains is the Brahman itself.if u would call this as Moksha as some do then i have no objection.

You wrote a correct thing

You wrote a correct thing that - "Brahman exists in everyh thing and so all these things like water etc. contains Brahman."

Now please try to understand that Omnipresence of Brahman is agreeable to us, but it doesn't mean that everything is Brahman.

If everything (stone, water, petrol, pencil etc)is really Brahaman (as you wrote), then you have to admit that Brahaman also should be like these physical things - destructible, changeable, visible, decaying, temporary, with shape, colour etc. Are you ready to admit so?

On other hand you say that Jagat is mithya. If everything (= jagat) is Brahaman, do you agree that Brahaman is also equally mithya as jagat?

Most probably you may be knowing that Neo-Vedantins of Adwait school don't believe even in the state of bondage and release. For them they are also imaginary and false - na bandho na mukti !

Brahaman is a being, already existing since eternity. No one has ever become Brahaman in the past, and no one can become Brahaman in the future. We are all souls fundamently different than Brahaman. Brahaman creats this universe for us out of third fundamental entity - mool prakriti (matter).

= Bhavesh Merja

NOTE: One may refer:
http://adityadham.com/aditya//Debate.htm
for detailed e-mail debate on this issue of Vedanta/Neo-vedanta, Advaita/Neo-advaita.

if everything (stone, water,

if everything (stone, water, petrol, pencil etc)is really Brahaman (as you wrote), then you have to admit that Brahaman also should be like these physical things - destructible, changeable, visible, decaying, temporary, with shape, colour etc. Are you ready to admit so?
A)yes everything is brahman.and brahman is pure consciousness which exists in all these things like water,pencil etc., but there is no destruction to the brahman for brahman is pure consciousness...and all these things are just different forms of brahman where brahman remains unchangeable.

On other hand you say that Jagat is mithya. If everything (= jagat) is Brahaman, do you agree that Brahaman is also equally mithya as jagat?
A)yes of course jagath is also brahman.and jagath is another form of Brahman.that which exists in jagath is brahman.and mithya is the ignorance that "this world is different from brahman" this thought has come from mind and it continues till the mind is chattering and when the mind is at complete still the ignorance "this world is different from brahman" gets removed and truth will be revealed that "jagath is also Brahman"

Brahaman is a being, already existing since eternity. No one has ever become Brahaman in the past, and no one can become Brahaman in the future. We are all souls fundamently different than Brahaman. Brahaman creats this universe for us out of third fundamental entity - mool prakriti (matter).
A)forget about all those mool prakrithi etc., find out who u are? get rid of the 'ego-Iam so and so' and so the truth will be revealed that everything is brahman.

Srujan Advaita ने Fri,

Srujan Advaita ने Fri, 2010-05-28 16:39 पर लिखा.and my comments on that at ##

if everything (stone, water, petrol, pencil etc)is really Brahaman (as you wrote), then you have to admit that Brahaman also should be like these physical things - destructible, changeable, visible, decaying, temporary, with shape, colour etc. Are you ready to admit so?
A)yes everything is brahman.and brahman is pure consciousness which exists in all these things like water,pencil etc., but there is no destruction to the brahman for brahman is pure consciousness...and all these things are just different forms of brahman where brahman remains unchangeable.

##[This theory is somewhat same as perpetuated by some other religions like Islam,Christianity, where the say every thing is generated by or from the AllMighty (God, Allah)]

On other hand you say that Jagat is mithya. If everything (= jagat) is Brahaman, do you agree that Brahaman is also equally mithya as jagat?
A)yes of course jagath is also brahman.and jagath is another form of Brahman.that which exists in jagath is brahman.and mithya is the ignorance that "this world is different from brahman" this thought has come from mind and it continues till the mind is chattering and when the mind is at complete still the ignorance "this world is different from brahman" gets removed and truth will be revealed that "jagath is also Brahman"

##[It means that the jagat, the other form of Brahma is = Brahma + Ignorance. And the generator of this thought is mind, which goes on chattering - "this world is different from brahman" , "this world is different from brahman". So the solution suggested to remove this ignorance is - Stop mind from chattering, because whenever it chatters, it chatters the same thing - "this world is different from brahman".
[The next thing we ask u, why mind has been made to chatter, most probably ur reply will be this chattering Is nothing but the Ego – the ignorance and an illusion? So the final answer lies in stopping mind from chattering. What is the solution u offer for this? Sit in silence, do nothing till u realize u are Brahma & every thing else is false, Mithya ?]

Brahaman is a being, already existing since eternity. No one has ever become Brahaman in the past, and no one can become Brahaman in the future. We are all souls fundamently different than Brahaman. Brahaman creats this universe for us out of third fundamental entity - mool prakriti (matter).
A)forget about all those mool prakrithi etc., find out who u are? get rid of the 'ego-Iam so and so' and so the truth will be revealed that everything is brahman.

##[Does Brahma not know who He is ??Has minds chattering shaken His confidence and has decepted His own self ? Further why at all Brahma allowed the production of mind in the first instance and then further allowed it to chatter ?]

The soul cannot be one with

The soul cannot be one with Brahman because of different attributes. The attributes of soul cannot be predicated of Brahman, and vise versa. Brahman is endowed with a number of auspicious qualities – different than those of the soul. The Absolute (Brahman) is unchangeable perfection and possesses intelligence which is never contracted, while the intelligence of the souls is at times in a contracted condition. Brahman is all-knowing (sarvagya) while soul is with limited knowledge (alpagya). How can then unchangeable Brahman appear as limited mind? How can the eternal light of intelligence be darkened by any other agency (maya, avidya, agyan, etc) whatsoever? If Brahman is eternal freedom and pure consciousness, how can it be a source of desires in an embodied soul? If the souls were the attributes of Brahman, as some are erroneously inclined to believe, it would be difficult to conceive how Brahman could be supposed to be unchangeable in view of the changing conditions of his attributes. Things never change their nature or essential attributes (swabhavik gunas). While Brahman is dimensionless unity, the souls are dimensionless units pervaded by Brahman. Nothing evil is attributed to Brahman, while the attributes of the soul include desire, avarice, volition, pleasure and pain. Distinguishing Brahman from the souls in this context, even Swami Shankaracharya had to admit that - Brahman (GOD) is never victim to worldly ills like the souls. (“yathaa jeevah samsaardukhamanubhavati na tathaa Ishwaronubhavati “ – Brahma sutra bhashya: 2.3.46)