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कृण्वन्तो विश्वमार्यम्

Soul - Space - Maya etc.

Human Soul is not all-knowing = sarvajya. Only God (Brahman) is all-knowing. Human Soul (in fact any soul = aatmaa = jeevaatmaa) is not an omniscient principle. Hence human soul has to acquire the knowledge of Vedas.

Vedas say that there are 3 fundamental entities: God, Soul & Matter. Among these 3, matter is fundamentally inert - devoid of knowledge or conciousness.

Let us try to understand SPACE: Space (= void = aakaash) is eternally existing. It is just void, made of nothing. In fact, it is never created. So there is no question of its extinction. It always exists. It remains available even during the time of total dissolution (pralay) of the universe. Because it has no cause. It is uncreated and just for the sake of understanding we can say that the space is 'existing' every where. In strict sense, we even cannot say that it is inert, because it is not an effect of any inert cause. Its only attribute is the capacity to provide space (sthaan) = location to all other existing conscious and unconscious things. The space is imagined or thought or understood only conceptually. It cannot be visualized. All existing substances including God, soul(s) and creation are situated in this space. Without space we cannot imagine any thing existing. Existence of any thing is not possible without space. 'Existence' itself implies that 'existence in space'.

It is also to be noted here that in Vedic philosophy one other type of space (aakaash) is also explained and that is an effect = real created thing. It is created by God using Prakriti = original subtle material cause of the universe. Shabda (word) is its attribute. This space (aakaash) is different from the space explained in the above paragraph.

Phenomenal world is created by God out of matter (Prakriti) and it really exists. God is creator of a REAL universe. We all can experience its presence.

Even scholars who follow Swami Shankaracharya's so-called philosophy of Adwait are not clear on the nature of Maya. If we take Maya as Prakriti = material cause of the universe, it can be easily apprehended.

Most benevolent and merciful God cannot be imagined as a creator of any delusion for us. God guides us; He never misguides us or creates delusions.

= Bhavesh Merja

Adarniya Bhavesh

Adarniya Bhavesh ji
'ISHAWASIYAM IDAMSARVAM' The whole universe is covered by Brahama. Hence to say that Space exists outside the God, to me, doesn't appear to be totally correct. There is another Mantra which says this universe lies in one leg of Brahma, i.e. 3/4 part is still vacant. From this can't it be concluded that the whole space is covered by God or else the space is the result of the existance of God. God is a Chaitan Energy, an initiater of the Creation from the particles of Prakriti , the Sat, tam & raj ? The Shabda is jyan of God & the same when applied to Prakrity creates Sounds/ waves and this results in the formation of Universe. You may Pl. correct me if u feel so.
Anand

I have not written that -

I have not written that - Space exists outside the God. I believe that as God is omnipresent, so is the space.

In other words - wherever God exists, space is also there. God without space is not possible to imagine. Wherever God exists, space is invariably there.

Yes,it is true that the entire created worlds lie only in insignificant space as compared to the vastness (Omnipresence)of God as well as of the space; and still there exists remaining (balance infinite) space where only infinite God and certain released (liberated)souls exist - nothing else.

The space under discussion is unborn & eternally existing; it is not the result of the existence of God.

Knowledge is an attribute and no substance (dravya) can be created out of an attribute.

= Bhavesh Merja

Will not the description

Will not the description create an expression that there are four things which are ANADI (Eternal) & not three. See when energy is applied the space is created, so energy creats space but space can't create energy. Ishwar is Energy, He is shaktiman. I don't say to compare this with the example of a baloon, where in when you blow the spsce is created inside the baloon, but still this gives some idea. So why is it essential to say that space existed & then God , Prakriti & Souls appeared. Will not this justify another version of creation, which states the God sitting somewhwere (in space), created the Universe. So isn't it more appropriate to say that God the Ishwar, the Energy existed eternally, which when acted on another Eternal thing the Natures particles created space for them, the one you explained as the other space & the phenominal world.

Regarding Knowledge, it is the Ishwar, who is Shaktiman & all knowledgeble, who creates the world and not the knowledge alone. The Shabda in its original form is the Knowledge of Ishwar & when applied by Ishwar creates shabda, which are audible by senses & requires space for its propagation. This shabda is the physical form of energy, which has the capacity to do works, such as creation of Universe.

I think we require more serious thinking on this.

With regards

Anand

In 12th chapter of

In 12th chapter of Satyarth-Prakash (The Light of Truth) Maharshi Dayananda has written that Space & Time are 'anaadi' (= eternal and beginning-less).

As I wrote earlier, Space (as described in Vaisheshik Darshan of Maharshi Kanad) is never created. It is eternally 'existing'. So to say that 'when energy is applied the space is created' is not true.

Yes, it is true that - 'space can't create energy.' This Space cannot be the material cause of any thing.

You wrote that - 'Ishwar (God) is Energy'. This is correct, because God is described in Vedas as most powerful - Almighty.

But the term 'Energy' used by modern scientists is altogether different than God's infinite creative power. Scientists Energy is another name of mass i.e. it is unconscious entity or the attribute of unconscious substance.

I never said that - 'space existed and then God, Prakriti & Souls appeared'. I believe that God, Soul(s), matter (= material cause of the universe)and space - all these are eternally co-existing.

Distance wise nothing is away from God. Same way nothing is away from the Space. God and Space - both can co-exist everywhere, because God (as well as Space also)is not a physical entity. Yes, He doesn't occupy the Space in the same way as any physical thing occupies the Space. But it doesn't mean that the Space is not infinite.

When God acts on eternally existing Prakriti (= material cause of the universe), the process of creation starts in the Space.

As explained earlier in the previous messages, there exists another type of Aakaash (= Space) which is created by God from Prakriti (= material cause of the universe). That Space is a created thing, that is not eternal.

= Bhavesh Merja

SPACE - IN

SPACE - IN SATYARTH-PRAKASH:

In Satyarth Prakash (The Light of Truth) Maharshi Swami Dayananda Saraswati has written that Space (aakaash) is eternal and present every where:

(i) “The discriminant of the Space is egress and ingress.” (Vaisheshik Darashan: II.I.20). (Chapter: 3)

(ii)"Space, time and direction(s) have attributes without actions (Kriyaa).” (Chapter: 3)

(iii) “Space is all pervading (vibhu padaarth), very subtle (ati sookshm) and uniform above and below. … Without Space there cannot exist any substance.” (Chapter: 13)

(iv) “The first thing is that Space is uncreated and eternal. To call it created shows that the author of Quran did not know science.” (Chapter: 14)

(v) “Space (aakaash) means void. When the causal substance (= Prakriti – the material cause of the universe) which pervades everywhere is collected together, then the Space (void) appears to be produced. In reality Space (void) is not created. If there were no Space, where would Prakriti (= material cause of the universe) and atoms reside.“ (Chapter: 8)

(vi) “Pre-existence of God, Prakriti (= material cause of the universe), time, Space, and eternal soul(s) is essential for the creation of the world. If one of these is wanting, there can be no creation.” (Chapter: 8)

(vii) Aakaash (Space), Kaal (Time), Jeev (Souls), paramanus (atoms - as defined in Vedic books of philosophy) can never be new or old. They are beginning-less and imperishable in their causal form. “(Chapter: 12)

[Note: It is also to be noted here that in Vedic philosophy one other type of space (aakaash) is also explained and that is an effect = real created thing. It is created by God using Prakriti = original subtle material cause of the universe. Shabda (word) is its attribute. It is a created thing, it is not eternal. It is one of 'Panch Mahabhoots'. It is different from the eternally existing space explained above.]

= Bhavesh Merja

Thanks for explaining so

Thanks for explaining so nicely & in details. One small query - Can't we call that space is an attribute of a substance, i.e., the existence of a substance/thing means the existence of a space also. As the God, Prakriti & Souls are existing eternally, so is the space. God has many other attributes, but space is an attribute in itself without additional secondary attributes. Similarily Time & Directions are attributes of a thing which can have movement. If we talk about space before we speak of any other eternal substance, then the space requires to be defined by its boundaries ?
To conclude can we say - Space is eternal as an attribute of God. Time & Directions are eternal as attributes of Sristi. Of course wrt Sristi we can always say space existed before it was created.
Please enlighten us with your valuable guidance.

What Maharshi Dayananda has

What Maharshi Dayananda has written in the 3rd chapter of Satyarth-prakash based on Vaisheshik Darashan will be useful. I quote below the relevant portion from there:

QUOTE:
"Drayvyaas (noumena) are nine in number: Prithivi (Solids), A'paah (Liquids), Teja (Luminous matter), Vaaya (Gases), and Akasha, Time, Space (Disha- direction), Soul (human and Divine), and Manas (Principle of thought and attention).
- VAISHESHIKA Shaastra 1: i, 15.

Characteristices (Lakshana) of a Dravya (Noumenon):- It is something in which attributes and actions or attributes only reside, and which is capable of becoming a co-inherent cause of an effect.

A cause always precede its effect.

Out of the nine Noumena, Solids, Liquids, Luminous matter (Ether), Gases, Manas and Soul (God and Individual Souls) possess both attributes and actions; whilst A'kaasha, Time and space (Disha - direction) possess attributes only but no action.
- VAISHESHIKA Shaastra 2: i, 1."

UNQUOTE:
I think the unborn - eternal, infinite aakaash (space - void) MAY be treated as "Dravya" for simplification - instead of an attribute of some other Dravya.

I SHOULD ALSO ADMIT HERE THAT - HERE ENDS MY CAPACITY TO PRESENT THIS CONCEPT OF "SPACE" (AAKAASH) AND IF I CAN HAVE SOMETHING MORE IN MY MIND ON THIS SUBJECT, I SHALL DEFINITELY SHARE IT ON THIS FORUM.

I ALSO WISH THAT OUR GREAT THINKERS & SCHOLARS (PARTICULARLY THOSE WHO HAVE GOT GURUKUL EDUCATION OF SHASTRAS) SHOULD THROW SOME USEFUL LIGHT ON THIS INTERESTING & FUNDAMENTAL TOPIC.

= Bhavesh Merja

Adarniya Bhavesh ji You have

Adarniya Bhavesh ji
You have given very valuable information. The answer lies in this -
"Out of the nine Noumena, Solids, Liquids, Luminous matter (Ether), Gases, Manas and Soul (God and Individual Souls) possess both attributes and actions; whilst A'kaasha, Time and space (Disha - direction) possess attributes only but no action.
- VAISHESHIKA Shaastra 2: i, 1."
Thanks very much for this.
Anand